Olivier Assayas speaks eloquently about his own work, able to talk about them both abstractly and practically. No surprise, then, that he’s as sharp when talking about other filmmakers’ films. A new video from TIFF finds the acclaimed French filmmaker — most recently of Non Fiction, Personal Shopper and Clouds of Sils Maria, and whose 1994 classic Cold Water was reissued earlier this year — talking Ingmar Bergman. Specifically he discusses Persona, the Swedish legend’s game-changing 1966 whatzit, about a caretaker (Bibi Andersson) tending to a damaged actress (Liv Ullmann).

Bergman, according to Assayas, showed “that you could be both a great writer and a great filmmaker, meaning you could have the skills of a director and also be one of the great writers of your time.” He also says Bergman, especially with Persona, “reinvented filmmaking”; surely any art house mindfuck, from Robert Altman’s 3 Women to the entire oeuvre of David Lynch, would have been impossible without it. Assayas points out one thing about the film that is rarely discussed: It’s not only a simple film but also “not expensive to make,” with its spartan cast and minimal locations. With precious few resources, Bergman was able to make a film that boldly reimagined what a movie even is, and how it can speak to real world horrors. That level of “urgency,” Assayas laments, doesn’t really happen anymore.