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“Debra is Incredibly Skilled at Recognizing What Will Remain Salient”: DPs Sean Hanley, Kefentse Johnson and Eric Phillips-Horst on Conbody VS Everybody
A still from ConBody VS Everybody. Courtesy of Sundance Institute. Conbody VS Everybody sees Debra Granik (Stray Dog) returning to documentary after 2018’s Leave No Trace and also breaking into the world of episodic series. The film follows Coss Marte as he creates a gym inspired by his own prison work outs in hopes of breaking the cycle of recidivism.
Two episodes of Conbody VS Everybody will premiere at Sundance 2024. Below, series cinematographers Sean Hanley, Kefentse Johnson and Eric Phillips-Horst share how they all got involved in the film, how their personal styles blended with Granik’s and the challenges of shooting a series over many years.
See all responses to our annual Sundance cinematographer interviews here.
Filmmaker: How and why did you wind up being the cinematographer of your film? What were the factors and attributes that led to your being hired for this job?
Phillips-Horst: Debra and I worked together on the 2012 documentary Stray Dog and developed a production rhythm and aesthetic balance of both of our documentary goals. Debra is incredibly skilled at recognizing what content will remain salient with an audience and always keeps a small notepad on set, scribbling down iconic lines she hears or connections she is making. I recognized that skill immediately and wanted to remain immersed in her ability to direct action while remaining open to what might happen next organically. Debra and I developed a relationship as longtime creative collaborators because of a melding of differences in approach: Debra with a mind towards wide frames and smash cuts, whereas I preferred to deliver cinematic coverage to build the scene in the edit. Where we ended up was a wonderful combination of those two editorial impulses in which the film feels both beautiful and constantly present in the moment.
Johnson: I met Debra in 2014 while enrolled in an MFA program at CCNY. My classmate, Jennifer Dean, asked me to film her interview with Debra for her film on women directors. Debra and I quickly became acquaintances. We shared interest in social justice issues, specifically criminal justice reform. After discussing the project and screening some of my work, I was brought on. Debra has a keen eye for strong framing and favors intimate group shots. After a few shoots together we were able to synthesize our recognition of important moments to capture on the fly. Over time working with Debra in fast paced unpredictable environments, I grew to appreciate her work ethic, patience and respect for the participants on this journey.
Hanley: I came on the project in 2015 on the recommendation of Eric as a fellow DP who could match the previous style developed over Stray Dog. We were members of the Meerkat Media Collective, which had partnered with Debra & producer Anne Rosellini for production support on Conbody VS Everybody. During those early days, both Debra and editor-producer Tory Stewart were spending lots of time with Coss and the team, so it was necessary to have multiple DPs on rotation to cover the beats as they developed.
Filmmaker: What were your artistic goals on this film, and how did you realize them? How did you want your cinematography to enhance the film’s storytelling and treatment of its characters?
All: Debra was always interested in getting as many people in the frame as possible. She was interested in the wide shots where multiple bodies were either engaged in a group conversation or focused on their own tasks: In hands and body language, showing as well as telling; in the context of the room, providing a world that the characters inhabit and play off of. We developed a shorthand for this image with the word “tableaux.” It was the code word, often whispered, to hold the frame wide and resist the urge for traditional documentary coverage. It was a way of representing the Conbody team as a whole, each with their specific stories, but all working towards the common goal.
As Debra is scribbling down lines she hears and connections she is making as she moves through filming a scene, she keeps us in the know of what feels interesting so we can keep an eye out for it as well, resulting in us making content and editorial decisions in sync on set.
Filmmaker: Were there any specific influences on your cinematography, whether they be other films, or visual art, of photography, or something else?
All: We always strived for an observational style which was specifically influenced by some of the greats, like Frederick Wiseman, Claire Simon, Nicolas Philibert, and the Maysles.
Eric learned a lot from working with Shaul Schwarz, who’s work as a stills photographer who transitioned into documentary film taught him to always include multiple pieces of information in one frame. Trying to tell the story with just one image pushes a cinematographer to assess what’s in front of the camera and choose an image that is aesthetically pleasing, but also tells a story and provides context, so it can live on its own, separate from an edit. We find that editors really value this method, as it allows them to let a moment ride in the cut.
Filmmaker: What were the biggest challenges posed by production to those goals?
All: Stamina was a common refrain in the making of Conbody VS Everybody. Of course we were making a project about fitness trainers, but as cinematographers, it also was about our stamina for long days, being in the hustle and not knowing exactly how things would pan out for 6+ years of production. So the challenge was an ongoing attentiveness. We had to keep chasing the moments that progressed the story.
Filmmaker: What camera did you shoot on? Why did you choose the camera that you did? What lenses did you use?
All: The majority of Conbody VS Everybody was shot on Canon EOS Cinema cameras. The project started shooting in 2014, so the C100 Mark 1 was the first camera used. Since we shot for over eight years, the camera systems progressed as time went on. The small size of the C100 was an asset for being nimble in tight spaces, allowing access and intimacy as we built relationship with the Conbody team. Then we progressed to C300 Mark 2 as production scaled up, and the majority of the film was shot on this camera. We finished out the project with pick-ups on the C70. Sometimes Debra would shoot with a small Canon camcorder to respond quickly to changing events. We preferred the Canon ecosystem because their skin tones present more realistically in post, especially in mixed lighting situations. At the time, the C series cameras, with their internal NDs and easy access to all camera controls, made for an efficient documentary camera.
We used a mix of Canon and Sigma photo zooms. We found the workhorse lens was their APS-C 17-55mm f/2.8. It was the perfect focal length range for close observational work on a Super-35mm sensor. Otherwise we used Sigma 18-35 f/1.8, Sigma 24-70mm IS f/2.8, Sigma 50-100 f/1.8, Canon 24-105 IS f/4, and Canon 70-200mm IS f/2.8.
Johnson: On a few shoots I used a Panasonic EVA1 modified with a pl mount paired with a 32mm Cooke mini S4 because it was the only gear available at the time. This combination had its challenges and required a completely different style of shooting, but overall it produced some really good results. The images of Chris Marte leading a protest against the construction of a jail in his neighborhood looked like a 70s social realist narrative. I loved the way the 32mm focal length captured the flank protesters on the streets, being vivid in the foreground and extending into the z-axis of the frame.
Filmmaker: Describe your approach to lighting.
All: Lighting, like most observational documentaries, was minimal on Conbody VS Everybody. Occasionally we would throw up as Astra 1×1 in the corner of a living room or kitchen and bounce it off the ceiling to bring a little more fill into the space. The biggest challenge for lighting was often inside the Conbody workout studio. Light levels were purposefully kept low for the class participants, so we had to adapt and choose an exposure that didn’t get too muddy.
Filmmaker: What was the most difficult scene to realize and why? And how did you do it?
Phillips-Horst: Shooting the election night of our main character’s brother, Chris Marte, proved to be an incredibly fun challenge. Debra and I were solo—we did not have a sound person that day. We put a lavalier mic on our main character and followed him around as well as any action we found interesting, over the course of the voting day. Bouncing from polling place to electioneering outside of apartment buildings and concluding with a thrilling suspense scene at the campaign headquarters, we managed to shoot what felt like a short film unto itself over the course of 10 hours. Having the microphone on our character provided us with unprecedentedly intimate access as he was whispered the election results, and we were able to position ourselves perfectly for the big reveal. It was truly a narratively satisfying and artistically fulfilling experience.
Filmmaker: Finally, describe the finishing of the film. How much of your look was “baked in” versus realized in the DI?
All: We shot in C-Log 3 with the intention of fixing any challenges in post. The reduced grain of C-Log 3 proved to be the most effective method for us, given that we often were shooting in dark or uncontrolled lighting situations.
TECH BOX
Film Title: Conbody Vs Everybody
Camera: Canon C100mk1, C300mk2, C70, Panasonic EVA1
Lenses: Canon & Sigma photo zooms, Cooke 32mm mini S4
Color Grading: Allie Ames / Postworks New York
