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“It Was a Process of Experience Meets Intuition Meets Dancing with the Unknown”: Jacob Perlmutter and Manon Ouimet on Their DOC NYC-Debuting Two Strangers Trying Not To Kill Each Other
Two Strangers Trying Not to Kill Each Other Jacob Perlmutter and Manon Ouimet’s Two Strangers Trying Not To Kill Each Other is as breathtakingly understated as its title is arresting. The doc, which picked up a Special Mention: DOX:AWARD when it world-premiered at CPH:DOX last March, stars the celebrated and prolific photographer Joel Meyerowitz (a two-time Guggenheim Fellow and NEA and NEH awards recipient with 50-plus books and over 350 museum and gallery exhibitions to his credit) and his less famous partner of 30 years, the British artist-musician-novelist Maggie Barrett. It’s also an up close and personal (literally — the filmmaker couple lived with their protagonists during production) encounter with the highs and lows of a long-term relationship, staged in a manner more reminiscent of a theater piece. For now that Joel, in his mid-eighties, is forced to become caregiver to his 75-year old wife after she breaks her femur, the pithy phrase “in sickness and in health” is put to the test. What unspools over the next 100 minutes is a painfully raw and refreshingly honest reckoning with both a bumpy past and an uncertain future — and in Maggie’s case, thwarted ambition as a result of decades of living in the shadow of a creative giant. Until, that is, a talented duo enter with a camera and smartly shine a spotlight on the unsung heroine at the heart of this forever love affair.
Just prior to the film’s DOC NYC (Metropolis Competition) premiere Filmmaker reached out to the British co-directing couple, both acclaimed photographers in their own right, to learn all about the bold and auspicious nonfiction debut.
Filmmaker: So how did you meet Joel and Maggie? Were they both always onboard with participating in a film?
Perlmutter and Ouimet: Jacob is a lifelong fan of Joel’s work, his eye influenced by Joel’s compositional approach. So he was surprised to see Joel on the streets of London one day. He followed him awhile, trying to work out what to say, following him in and out of shops until, as fate would have it, he lost him. Game over. Or so he thought.
Two weeks later Jacob saw Joel again, this time with Maggie. He approached and talked with the couple. Their aura struck him, [as well as] their dignity and presence — a certain glow that stayed with him for a couple of years. Then during the pandemic Jacob came across Maggie’s blog, connecting with her writing. He reached out, relaying the impression the couple had left in his mind, and suggested the idea of a documentary about them. They were interested.
We considered the possibility of making the film together — what it might be for a younger filmmaker couple to make a film about an older artist couple. We all had dinner and an energy clicked. A few months later we moved in to Maggie and Joel’s home in Tuscany and would stay under the same roof whenever filming. This intimacy quickly led to a trusting relationship, whereby Maggie and Joel felt comfortable to open their home and lives. It was a beautiful and generous shape that formed, allowing the days to organically unfold.
Filmmaker: I can imagine this unusual production process—- your moving in with your protagonists during filming ‚ might also have led to some tense moments. How exactly did that work? What boundaries were established?
Perlmutter and Ouimet: The filming process was beautiful, open, and ever-communicative. The four of us were in constant dialogue throughout the process. This communication ensured everyone was comfortable at all stages, with no awkward or tense moments. There are absolutely some intensely human moments in the film, and these were always openly discussed in the evenings. The year was a journey of talking through, behind camera, as much as it was life unfolding before it. Boundaries and comfort levels were discussed daily. The process was fluid, respectful and deeply creative.
Filmmaker: You’re both veteran photographers who’ve worked in fiction filmmaking, which makes me wonder why you’ve embarked on this first foray into nonfiction now. Did you simply want to make a film about Joel and Maggie? Do you see doc-making as an extension of your other artistic pursuits?
Perlmutter and Ouimet: When this potential project presented itself and we all showed up for it, this new language of observational documentary filmmaking felt like exciting territory for us to discover together as co-directors. We went in with no expectations — it was about following a feeling and a shared space. It was bringing to the table all that we knew as individual artists (photographers, musicians, filmmakers) plus a heap of enthusiasm, a desire to make something that felt emotionally pertinent, and a healthy dose of naivety — something quite special for this scale of ambition. It was a process of experience, meets intuition, meets dancing with the unknown. The project also came from the pandemic and the deep desire we all felt to reconnect. Again, this simply felt right for all four of us, individually and together.
Filmmaker: Your film has actually been on my radar since CPH:DOX, where it picked up a Special Mention: DOX:AWARD, which made me curious to learn how DFI and Final Cut for Real became involved. Did you pitch the project at CPH:FORUM?
Perlmutter and Ouimet: We joined forces with Final Cut for Real and then pitched alongside Signe Byrge Sørensen at CPH:FORUM. There we picked up some pre-sales, including DR and SVT. The DFI came onboard soon after.
We were lucky enough along the journey to work with some incredible people, including Mandy Chang and Fremantle, Joslyn Barnes and Louverture, consultant editor and Executive Producer Janus Billeskov Jansen, and, more recently, Modern Films as our UK and Northern Ireland distributor. Editor Estephan Wagner and composer Diogo Strausz were also key components of the filmmaking process. There are so many people, as there always are, who are the pillars of this film. The filming process was quiet, fluid and intimate, the editing and production journey communal and structured.
Filmmaker: How involved were Joel and Maggie in the filmmaking process? Did they view rough cuts? How do they feel about the final film?
Perlmutter and Ouimet: During filming Maggie and Joel lived their lives. We spoke a lot during the process but never showed them footage. The only cut they saw was a week before picture lock, to check how it felt to them. They immediately loved the film and had no notes. They felt seen, fairly represented, and proud not only to be part of the project, but also excited to learn the deep lessons that the film holds. To this day they openly continue to evolve as the incredible people that they are from watching it. They’ve seen the film six times now and it deepens every time, especially with the Q&As we hold with audiences afterward.
