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“I Grow as I Make a Film”: Nanfu Wang on Her HBO Documentary, Night Is Not Eternal
Night Is Not Eternal It’s a bit surprising to think that when I last interviewed Nanfu Wang it was for her six-part HBO docuseries Mind Over Murder, which revisited an infamous case of justice gone haywire in a small town in Nebraska back in the 1980s. Which, in terms of subject matter, is a far cry from this year’s followup (also for HBO). Night Is Not Eternal is a deep character study, a format the acclaimed director has long embraced, that charts the rise of Rosa Maria Paya, daughter of Oswaldo Paya, a five-time Nobel Peace Prize-nominated activist assassinated by the Cuban government in 2012. Over seven years, as Paya takes up her late father’s mantle, eventually becoming a respected freedom fighter in her own right, Wang follows the often fraught journey while being keenly aware of its many similarities to her own experiences in China and as an exile in America. Only to find, quite unexpectedly, that the differences between herself and her heroine might need to likewise take centerstage.
Filmmaker caught up with the globetrotting documentarian, also a busy mother of two young sons, a few days before the film’s Nov 19th release.
Filmmaker: You followed Rosa over seven years, which makes me curious to hear how you managed to find time to film with her given all your other projects during this period. Did you have a pre-arranged schedule, or were the shoots more spontaneous?
Wang: It was mostly spontaneous. It really depended on what was going on with Rosa’s life and work. I’d check in with her from time to time, asking what she planned to do in the coming months. Rosa traveled a lot, and I wished I could’ve gone with her on most of her trips, but she’d often be away for weeks internationally. I couldn’t join since I was still a Chinese citizen during most of the time I was making this film – usually couldn’t even get visas in time for Europe or Latin America. Also, being a mom, I couldn’t just pick up the camera and leave for weeks like she could.
We filmed her in Colombia and the Czech Republic with local teams; and I traveled with her to Havana, Puerto Rico, Miami, DC, etc. I’d film between my other projects. Our DP Javier Labrador Deulofeu is based in Miami, which was extremely helpful. When something unexpected happened there, like the protests in Cuba and Miami in July 2021, he could go right away and start filming.
Filmmaker: How much footage did you end up shooting? Were there storylines that were left on the cutting room floor?
Wang: I never really count footage by hours – honestly, I’m not sure how others do that. We’ve got nearly 20 TB of footage ranging from 2K to 4K [in size] over the years. There’s lots we shot that didn’t make the final cut, though I wouldn’t call them separate storylines. It was mostly Rosa doing her thing — her weekly radio show, her meetings, her speaking at conferences in Medellín, Prague, New York, Miami, DC, etc.
There is a montage sequence in the film showing her transformation that lasts about one minute. Each shot in that montage comes from full days of filming at different events. The few seconds you see are from hours and hours of footage that we didn’t use. Same with the July 2021 protests — our DP spent over a week filming nonstop in Miami, but only a few minutes made it into the film. We also did many long sit-down interviews with people close to Rosa and her father Oswaldo. Most of those ended up on the cutting room floor save for a few audio clips we used in one montage.
Filmmaker: I noticed that motherhood has really influenced your relationship to filmmaking in recent years, which makes me wonder if certain projects are now off the table. Have you become more wary of, say, returning to film in China and potentially risk arrest?
Wang: Yes, motherhood definitely affected how I make films, but it didn’t really change the themes and topics I explore. The main change after becoming a mother was realizing I tend to approach filmmaking with less of an observational style now. When I made my first and second film, before I had kids, I lived with the film subjects for months. Especially with my second film, I was staying on the streets with Dylan who lived a homeless life. I couldn’t do that now that I have two young kids.
The films I made after becoming a mother — One Child Nation, In the Same Breath, Night Is Not Eternal — they’re more essayistic, constructed with interviews, archival footage, and verite. The stories take shape in my mind more than they emerge from spending months in the field. In 2021, when I had to be in Nebraska for six weeks to film for the series Mind Over Murder, we actually moved our three-year old to a daycare in Beatrice, Nebraska so I could keep working without having to be away from him. It’s trickier now with my older son in elementary school. I can’t just pull him out to follow me on shoots, and I wouldn’t want to be away from my family for months. But I embrace this change, and feel excited to find creative ways to keep doing what I love while being present for my kids.
Filmmaker: Without giving away any spoilers, there’s a surprising turn of events towards the end that makes you reassess both the film and your relationship with Rosa. Did that experience make you aware of certain blindspots you may have had, or perhaps provide any filmmaking lessons going forward?
Wang: Yes. Absolutely in terms of blindspots. I think that’s what’s so beautiful about filmmaking, that I grow as I make a film. Every time I’ve started a film, I’ve had this set of assumptions about the people and the world that the film exists in, and the process of making it inevitably challenges those assumptions. As a result, I don’t just learn enormously about those people and that world, but I also make new discoveries about myself.
I don’t view this as a “filmmaking lesson” to carry forward, though. I think it’s bound to happen the next time I make a film. And I hope it does, because those surprises, those moments of questioning and revelations, are what make this process so exciting and rewarding.
Filmmaker: Are you still in touch with Rosa? How does she feel about the film as well as the upcoming HBO release?
Wang: Yes, she watched the film twice, first at the rough cut stage (and we filmed her watching it and included her reaction in the final film). Then she watched the final version last month. She appreciated how the film provided a platform for people to understand more about Cuba, the struggles of its people, and particularly Sayli’s story and that of others like her. We’re still friends even though we might have different opinions on certain topics and issues. Recently, she was interviewed by a New York Times journalist who asked about our differing political views, and she said, “I don’t expect all my friends to share my opinions.” That’s exactly how I feel too!
