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“We Have Complete Creative Control”: Chuck Russell on Witchboard
Witchboard The first film directed by Chuck Russell I can remember seeing was the special effects-driven Jim Carrey vehicle The Mask at a multiplex with my family thirty years ago (the summer comedy opened on July 29th, 1994 in over 2,300 North American theaters). However, it was his work in the horror genre with co-writer Frank Darabont that really hooked me. Both 1987’s A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors—released when the filmmaker was only 28—and 1988’s remake of The Blob were gooey and gory, yes, but also competent adventure films, their charm derived from Russell’s nimble craftsmanship and the sincerity of his young, soon-to-reach-Hollywood-stardom casts (including Patricia Arquette, Laurence Fishburne and Shawnee Smith).
After decades of commercial success in other genres, Russell, much like another 1980s Elm Street director, Renny Harlin, now finds himself returning to his horror/fantasy roots. A relatively successful semi-hit from director Kevin Tenney (that was, coincidentally, shot by Roy H. Wagner, Russell’s DP on Elm Street 3), Witchboard was ripe for a modern update, and now here it is. Replacing the use of a Ouija board with a more sinister Wiccan pendulum board, Russell’s Witchboard is set in New Orleans as a group of friends work to open a new café in the French Quarter. When Emily (Madison Iseman) discovers the demonic board, a series of unfortunate events take place, including Emily experiencing nightmarish visions and her friends experiencing limb dismemberment and subsequent rigor mortis. To top it all off is a pesky cat who seems to exist, as all cats in horror films must, to pop up for a jump scare every few minutes. While often playing it straight, Russell’s film thankfully isn’t taking itself too seriously.
A few days after the film’s World Premiere at the Fantasia International Film Festival in Montréal, I spoke with Russell about his reasons for wanting to return to his horror roots, stories from the set of Elm Street 3 and how the only constant in the film industry is change.
Filmmaker: In preparing for this interview, I realized that in the second weekend of March of 1987, both Witchboard and A Nightmare on Elm Street 3 were in the top 10 at the domestic box office.
Russell: Really?
Filmmaker: Your film placed higher.
Russell: I didn’t realize we were actually out at the same moment.
Filmmaker: Your film was in its third weekend of release while Witchboard was in its 11th.
Russell: Wow, that’s amazing.
Filmmaker: I imagine at that moment in your life/career, you were focused on the reception to Elm Street 3, but I was curious if you had any recollections of the Witchboard of the ’80s? Was the film even on your radar?
Russell: I missed the first theatrical release, possibly because my own film was out at the same time and I was doing stuff like this [press], I’m not sure. That was my first directing gig. But I eventually saw Witchboard and found it fascinating. It really created this whole horror subgenre of Ouija board movies. You’ve got to give Kevin Tenney credit! For me, it felt a little bit like the original [version of] The Blob, in that it was a resonant piece of pop culture for the time and yet it still [today] has a lot of fans. I realized, “Well, I can take it even further. I can take this idea and now introduce a pendulum board (which was the predecessor to the Ouija board) and do something even more original, for the fans.”
Filmmaker: Your interest in elements of the occult is apparent throughout your films. I’m reminded of The Mask, where it comes back to a form of mythology.
Russell: I used Norse mythology and [my] imagination on that film, as the mask itself comes from the Norse God [Loki]. I’m interested in the spiritual world and the dynamic between the spiritual good and spiritual evil, which I think is a real force. My films tend to have a little more rooting interest and, dare I say, a sense of fun in scaring the audience, as I know they’re there to be thrilled. My fun comes from getting to design those thrills. However, I also like character-based humor, and I think camaraderie and human love are a great antidote to evil, but often at great cost.
Filmmaker: I was curious about the task of making the pendulum board, an inanimate object in theory, appear sinister. Outside of encompassing dramatic overhead shots, are there really other ways to shoot a flat board?
Russell: No, there are many ways! In fact, I wish I had some of those extreme close-up cameras and lenses that are [now available], but we photographed the board in a kinetic way that I think makes it a character in the film.
On The Mask, it was all about Jim Carrey plus the original Mask comic book, so we made a comedy version of what was originally a more horrific comic book. In the case of Witchboard, it comes from my interest in pendulum boards. Filming them gave me this new [version], this Witchboard, and everything literally started with the idea of how to plan out those shots and with me learning about a strong and legitimate form of divination. I’m cautious about pendulum boards, depending on the board itself, and Ouija boards as well, because there is such a thing as supernatural evil, so I don’t encourage anybody to try this stuff. We treat it with respect in our movie and I think the human spirit always is the answer to countering evil.
What I did was take real Wiccan history and make it an exciting part of the story. As wild as this film is (and it’s supposed to be wild!), what was really happening back in the 1700s was that if you got caught with a pendulum board, you could potentially get burned at the stake. At one point, the French Pope even outlawed them! It was quite a serious deal. There was also a real town in France, a small village, where they found everybody murdered in the morning and it turned out that the people had a kind of Old World LSD trip. That historical fact fascinated me, so that bubbled up in [our] story as well. The film’s ties to real medieval tragedy was, for us, the backstory into this world.
Filmmaker: And by including the backstory and history of the Witchboard in your film, it also provides you with a chance to make something of a period piece.
Russell: Exactly, and by shooting in Montréal, we not only got to use these incredible locations and buildings that were legitimately built in the 1700s and are still standing, but I got to film that section all in French, which I think makes the film a bit more authentic. The historical scenes in the film are not flashbacks, but rather part of a concurrent, parallel storyline, and that was very fun to construct.
Filmmaker: And some of the film was shot here in Quebec at the Morgan Arboretum, right?
Russell: I’m a guest here, and there’s a fort that we shot a lot of the witch stuff in, in what I believe was an ammunition dump for that fort, yes. It looks just like a dungeon, and I can’t be convinced it’s not. They say it was used just for ammunition at the time, but there were definitely some ghosts in that building, so I thought it was a wonderful location for us.
Filmmaker: I was curious about your use of practical effects versus CGI. You’ve spoken about how one should use CGI to enhance what is already there, but early in Witchboard, when a bird engulfed in flames flies out of a living room fireplace, I wasn’t sure what was practical and where the CGI took over.
Russell: Well, I don’t want to give away too much. I know practical effects tend to be scarier in my work anyway, and part of the reason is that the actors are terrified, even though as safe as they might be, they’re in the environment [with them] and something practical is going to happen right then and there. Of course, they trust that it will be safe and no one will get hurt. On the other hand, it’s kind of physically explosive to just be waiting around and then suddenly I say, “Action!” The actors then get to express a tension that is real. This [environment] helps them get all the way to the fear or the gasp or scream, and I think that communicates quite well to the audience. Later, we’ll use CGI to enhance all of that, but everything you saw [in Witchboard] begins with physical, practical effects, including that cat in the film who did an amazing job [laughs].
Filmmaker: Is it on set when you start brainstorming about how to enhance a practical effect with CGI?
Russell: That is the secret sauce. In other words, sometimes I’ll plan it, but most of the time I’ll [use it] only if it’s required after I do my first cut of the film. That’s when I think about [the CGI]. I don’t want to get too technical, but there were some very small effects, like some blood and some fire in the film, that needed to include CGI. I didn’t really want to burn my actors!
Filmmaker: I was recently watching some old camcorder footage shot by a crew member of Elm Street 3 that has made its way to YouTube. There’s the scene where Freddy’s holding his ears in pain as a mirror shatters, and it’s fascinating to watch the different takes you got and how you set all that up with Robert Englund [who plays Freddy Krueger].
Russell: It’s interesting you should mention that shot, as that was one of the last things that didn’t work for us. I always say that we finished these films in a sandbox with miniatures, and it’s true. I was literally on my knees on the floor of [visual effects supervisor] Hoyt Yeatman’s shop. [Co-founded by Yeatman, Dream Quest Images was a prolific VFX company in the 1980s and 1990s that oversaw the special visual vffects on Elm Street 3 and 4.] We were there with sheets of Mylar getting reflections of Freddy, bending it with our hands for a final element that we needed for the last possible shot [of production]. And it works because, again, it’s based around something practical. That was all a big stunt, with stunt doubles for the [other actors] for when the glass blows and [shatters].
Filmmaker: Even today, watching how a film like that is put together is still kind of a miracle.
Russell: It’s a miracle when it works. And the number one thing is the stagecraft and safety, so that we know what we’re doing before we bring any actor on to set.
Filmmaker: I wanted to ask about the production company you co-created, A-NATION Media, which states that “original content will be developed with the global market in mind. To accomplish this goal, A‑NATION develops its own solutions through film finance, vertical integration, cost-savings, middlemen reduction, faster payments, piracy protection, and reclamation of one’s privacy. A‑NATION will power all phases of the filmmaking process from script development forward.” I believe Witchboard is one of the company’s first productions?
Russell: Witchboard is a co-production between Gala Film and A-NATION Media and, [based] here in Canada, Real By Fake. We’re very proud to have made a high-end independent film without any Hollywood studio’s involvement. This is an old school way to make a film, where we have complete creative control and can make it without all the middlemen and studio heads. I mean, God bless the studios (and I will still make studio pictures in the future), but it’s fun to do this kind of picture economically and deliver on what I think audiences really care about. With A-NATION, we intend to continue making films that way.
When I made Elm Street 3, I had the good fortune of working with New Line Cinema right at the time where they were going from what would be considered an independent film company [to a Hollywood studio]. Elm Street 3 helped the company financially—it was a very successful movie. From there, New Line went on to show their trust in me by allowing me to direct The Mask years later, which was a movie made for under $20 million, even with all of those visual effects that were pioneering CGI at the time. Jim Carrey was not yet a star and Cameron Diaz had never acted before! That’s kind of the business model for me: let’s bet on ourselves creatively, and on exciting new talent and a story that’s as original and fun as I can make it. We then use studio partners for distribution. Anyway, it’s a fun way to make films and it helps promote independent film and new directors—not that I’m a new director, but as a producer we hope to continue to do it this way at A-NATION.
Filmmaker: When in post, are you editing in a post-production lab? From a smaller, personal home facility?
Russell: On Witchboard, I was cutting with my editors in different facilities [via] Real By Fake, one here in Montréal and one back in L.A. in [Santa Monica], and at home. Ever since COVID, we’ve all been spread out. I can actually do a great job editing a 8K feature film of this quality via this weird, slightly advanced version of Zoom that we have specifically [designed] for editing. I find that very convenient, this part of this mobility and technology. We can edit together in real time, which is pretty cool.
Filmmaker: When someone thinks of Chuck Russell horror movies, they think of the late ’80s or the early ’90s, but your career has spanned decades, working with stars like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Kim Basinger and John Travolta. I don’t wish to imply that Witchboard serves as a bookend to your career, but it’s a nice return to the genre for yourself.
Russell: You know what? To me it completes a trilogy. It’s my own personal trilogy of experiments in horror classics and how I can expand them into something new.
Filmmaker: Your remake of The Blob felt appropriately modernized to include cultural elements of the Reagan era in which it was made. Did you see your version of Witchboard as also holding up a mirror [to society]?
Russell: It’s a reinvention, certainly. I’m not overly intellectual in reflecting on the times, but I do think there’s a reason these films resonanted originally. Besides that, on Elm Street 3, obviously it wasn’t any kind of a remake or [message], but with [it being] a sequel, New Line allowed me to take the character of Freddy a lot further even though they were very nervous about it. In other words, Freddy had never gotten out of the red-and-green striped sweater [to that point in the franchise]. And here I was, putting the character in a tuxedo. I made him a television monster, I made him a giant snake, etc. New Line was a little uptight about all of that, but then they took it even further in the million sequels they did after Part 3,.
Filmmaker: Hopefully you didn’t have to quickly pivot [on the set of Witchboard] like you did, impromptu, on the set of Elm Street 3 when deciding to quickly redress the Freddy snake…
Russell: That’s a true story. When Kevin Yagher and his team brought that…whatever it was…a nine-foot-tall, phallic-looking snake thing [onto set], before it was activated, it looked quite erect. And with it having the face of Freddy at the top of it, which is quite pink, I just looked at it and said, “Ladies and gentlemen, I’m sorry but we’re going to take an hour and make this snake green.” I didn’t mind if it was a little phallic-looking, because that works quite well in a Freudian dream sort of way for the character played by Patricia Arquette—but yes, we had to slime it down, color it green and throw a lot of green lighting on it until I was satisfied that it wouldn’t be too much of an in-your-face moment for the audience.
Filmmaker: Being able to adjust in the moment, even with a big effects shot like that, is a necessary skill then.
Russell: People think filmmaking is a nightmare and back when I was assistant directing, I would watch directors pull their hair out and, I think, overact a little bit over their frustrations. However, you’ve got to be a leader on set. I don’t fake my emotions, but I am conscious that shit happens and I know there’s always an interesting solution. A lot of times, the alternate path ends up giving you an even greater result. You’ve got to trust yourself, trust your cast, and maybe you’re going to film something quite different than what you thought you were going to film on that day, but you’ve got to remain flexible on your feet. Film is an amazing medium, it’s just so plastic. There are so many things you can do with it, and now, with all the digital tools available, even more.
Filmmaker: And now an increasing number of streaming platforms.
Russell: Yeah, there are all of these great platforms to show your film on. It’s an interesting time. It seems like there’s a lot of new films…
Filmmaker: But it’s harder to be discover them if you’re not already aware [of their existence].
Russell: Well, there are a lot of distractions, yes, but the fun of what’s going on now is almost anybody can create an audience on the internet and with their cell phones. Young people occasionally ask me how I got started, and what I did took a while. I swept a lot of stages and got coffee for a lot of people while I was writing my first scripts. But I was delighted, because I’m from Chicago and it was a big deal to even try to [succeed] in L.A. Nowadays, I encourage young filmmakers to get on their iPhones, download a simple enough editing app and start telling stories, or go to film school, but I never was able to go to film school at that time in my life.
Filmmaker: With this month marking 40 years since the release of Joseph Ruben’s film Dreamscape [which was Russell’s first produced screenplay]…
Russell: Oh my God, you’re dating me.
Filmmaker: I was curious how you’ve seen the industry change or shift.
Russell: Oh, it’s always changing. Early in my career, I had a meeting with one of the heads of…it might’ve been Universal at the time, and he told me that the only thing that’s always true about the film business is change. In other words, the medium will always change and the technology will always change. How people watch films has been changing from the era of silent films, and it’s still changing, through VHS, DVDs, streaming, and now everybody’s practically got their own home theater. But I still think gathering in a movie theater delivers the biggest thrills, especially in the [horror] genre, where to be sitting in the dark with complete strangers, elbow to elbow, all screaming at the same moment or gasping together, is a very human experience that I think is not to be missed. The last communal events we have left are cinema and sporting events and Broadway, etc. but I think there’s something unique about the darkness [of a movie theater] and the fact that the flickering of a movie screen is a little hypnotic and dreamlike. I still find that to be a magical experience.
Filmmaker: Around this time two years ago when I was attending Fantasia here in Montréal, I took a detour to a local multiplex to see Jordan Peele’s new movie, Nope.
Russell: Oh yeah, Jordan’s the greatest.
Filmmaker: I was surprised to see Nope give a pretty substantial shoutout to your 2002 film, The Scorpion King, in having Daniel Kaluuya’s character’s backstory include having worked as a crewmember on that movie. He even wears an orange hoodie sporting the title, The Scorpion King, in the climax!
Russell: Yeah, it’s amazing. I was quite touched by that.
Filmmaker: Did you know that your film was going to factor into Jordan’s?
Russell: There was a lawyer who sent my lawyer a release form while I’m sure Jordan was busy filming. I’m the biggest fan of Jordan’s in the world, and I was finishing a screenplay or something at the time, working really long hours and didn’t know what [Jordan] was [getting in touch for], so I said, “Sure, whatever, it’s Jordan Peele!” But I never got to talk to him and I’m such a fan. You’re reminding me now that I have to bug him and sit down with him someday. That was quite a nice homage to The Scorpion King in his film and they even intended to use a picture of me directing The Rock on that fuzzy TV [the characters have] in the film, but it’s so fuzzy you can’t quite see it. So, I almost got to appear in a Jordan Peele movie, almost [laughs]. But The Scorpion King was a blast, really amazing to make that film on the Universal [Studios] backlot.
